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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Nov 4, 2011 6:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Yes!!!!!!!

coming this way soon, the gun to my head on a deserted island show. Oh yeah and the greatest China>Rider ever. There is no need to discuss this. It is a fact....imo.

Grateful Dead - February 24, 1974
Winterland Arena - San Francisco, CA

Recording Info:
SBD -> Master Reel -> Dat (44.1k)

Transfer Info:
Dat (Tascam DA-20) -> Tascam SS-R05 -> Adobe Audition v3 -> Samplitude Professional v11.2 -> FLAC
(3 Discs Audio / 1 DVD FLAC)

All Transfers and Mastering By Charlie Miller
charliemiller87@earthlink.net
November 3, 2011

Notes:
-- All disc changes are seamless
-- Numerous flaws were cleaned up
-- There is a Spanish Jam in Dark Star
-- Tape flips in Row Jimmy and Dark Star
-- Thanks to David Gans for lending me his Dats
-- Thanks to Joe B. Jones for his help with the pitch correction

Set 1:
d1t01 - Introduction
d1t02 - U.S. Blues
d1t03 - Mexicali Blues
d1t04 - Brown Eyed Women
d1t05 - Beat It On Down The Line
d1t06 - Candyman
d1t07 - Jack Straw
d1t08 - China Cat Sunflower ->
d1t09 - I Know You Rider
d1t10 - El Paso
d1t11 - Loser
d2t01 - Playing In The Band

Set 2:
d2t02 - Cumberland Blues
d2t03 - It Must Have Been The Roses
d2t04 - Big River
d2t05 - Bertha
d2t06 - Weather Report Suite ->
d2t07 - Row Jimmy
d2t08 - Ship Of Fools
d3t01 - Promised Land
d3t02 - Dark Star ->
d3t03 - Morning Dew
d3t04 - Sugar Magnolia ->
d3t05 - Not Fade Away ->
d3t06 - Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad ->
d3t07 - Not Fade Away

Encore:
d3t08 - It's All Over Now, Baby Blue

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Nov 5, 2011 4:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

love this show...however not the best china rider or dew...not even of 74...05-19 is a better china rider from 74, 09-10 and 10-18 are better dews from that year...

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 5, 2011 9:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

these are all debatable opinions of course. perhaps the term 'favorite' is more fitting. the china>rider is my favorite version ever and while the dew might not be my #1 favorite, it is in the top 3.

i could make an argument for at least 6 different versions of china cat>rider and dew being the BEST EVER. what really makes it the best though? it sounds the best to you right?

This post was modified by rdenirojb87 on 2011-11-05 16:25:34

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Nov 5, 2011 2:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

yet another good reason to sign-up to the 'legs' ...........

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 5, 2011 3:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

Also up on bt.etree - no sign in required.

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Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Nov 5, 2011 7:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

yeah, but there's a You Tube video of 7 Walkers with Bob Weir and Mickey Hart ("Bird Song")on Lossless Legs homepage ......

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 5, 2011 1:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

L, you know I hate to disagree with you but... For me, this isn't even close to being the best China/Rider. It's just too diffuse - for the first eight minutes or so my attention keeps wandering away from it, which can't be good. I'd say it doesn't really come into sharp focus until about a minute or so before Rider kicks in and from there it's at a canter to the finish line.

Just as for instances, I'd put this one
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-12-15.sbd.miller.97718.sbeok.flac16
and 05-03-72 (no longer available on the Archive) way ahead of it as being much more attention-grabbing and dynamic performances from soup to nuts.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Nov 5, 2011 5:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

There are so many great China>Riders and i think how one ranks them depends on what they are listening for or more precisely what aspect of the suite they give highest priority. For me the transition is what i rank highest on my score card and i have always thought this one had the best. Admittedly it was the first of the '73-74 UJB jam transitions that i had ever heard and perhaps hearing this one first biases my opinion. However i also think the Rider is a thing of beauty as well. I agree that the China starts slow, but knowing what is coming allows me to look past it.

If you rank the China Cat higher then your right, i think you need to look earlier than '73. I love 10-4-70 as an example of a high energy China>Rider. 5-3-72 is great although i don't think we have ever heard the real vocals on the Rider (at least with the new release the China Cat has been restored to its original sound).

http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-10-04.fm.glassberg_winters.28363.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 6, 2011 8:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

I think China/Rider is the quintessence of the Grateful Dead - for me, it's the one thing that encapsulates what they were all about more than anything else they ever did. The dancing and weaving through China Cat's word pictures; the hang on for your life highspeed cornering through the chicanes of a good transitional jam; that lift you out of your seat feeling of joy when they hit the first chords of Rider; and then the cavalry charge to the triumphant life-affirming finish. I never get tired of it.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 6, 2011 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

hey rob, don't misinterpret this as taking a stab at you.

for me it's dark star that perfectly encapsulates the band's essence and full musical capabilities. in a china>rider they always stuck to the basic structure of the song. this restraint prohibited them from delving deep into the realms of exploration that they would reach with a dark star. a ds is so unpredictable, which is its most exciting feature to me. there's just so much room for exploration, and for the boys to really open up and intertwine their notes to achieve a magnificent musical opus. if i had to pick one song to showcase the band's abilities it would most certainly be a ds.

This post was modified by rdenirojb87 on 2011-11-06 16:53:40

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 6, 2011 9:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

ok, no comments on the 82min CD. I guess it's just sour grapes on my part. Hell, I don't care for Promised land that much anywho, Mr Miller.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 6, 2011 9:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

sorry rasta, i didn't intentionally snub you.

i can't really help you with that unfortunately, as i never make those 80 min cd's. i make the data discs in itunes, so i can fit like 50 songs on a cd. i'm fairly certain that if you overburn it will compress the quality a bit. however with 2 minutes over, it won't be noticeable at all.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Nov 6, 2011 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

There's more than enough fruit on the Grateful Dead tree for each and every one of us to pick whatever looks most appealing. You're obviously far from alone in nominating Dark Star as being the Grateful Dead's greatest achievement - and I wouldn't necessarily argue with you about that. But I choose China/Rider because, and I'm repeating myself from a year or two ago, it fuses originality and tradition, and, to me, it is a microcosm of what the Grateful Dead were all about. Dark Star, for all its undoubted magnificence, was just one facet of the Grateful Dead diamond.

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Nov 4, 2011 10:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Double Yes!!!!!!!

I've been waiting for this for quite a while!!!

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Nov 5, 2011 5:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

how about a lil love for cumberland blues! this one is groovin right along!!~ classic"

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Poster: ckj Date: Nov 5, 2011 11:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

Agreed great show. Like the China>Rider, but enjoy 12-6-73 more. Killer HCS the night before...

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Poster: steveinballard Date: Nov 5, 2011 7:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

Thank you, Charlie!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 5, 2011 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

for what it's worth I agree w/Elbow on 2/24/74 being best China>Rider ever.

Subjectivity is a wonderful thing.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 5, 2011 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

Hmmm, given its significance in the early era, I may have to break down and give this CCS a listen.

;)

I will not lower myself though and enter the debate; as you well know, I am never one to advise or comment on "best" of versions, or preferences for "eras", and the like, but I may just have to do something out of the ordinary today.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 5, 2011 1:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

Tell, step out of your old man cave and give this china>rider the listen that it deserves. i'd be curious to hear your opinion afterwards, keeping in mind of course that a '68 china>rider is a whole different vehicle than a '74 one.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Nov 5, 2011 6:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

I don't think China met Rider until 1969. According to deadliest.com this is the first or at least the earliest that is available for listening.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-09-30.aud.early.hollister.80.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 5, 2011 6:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

yes, you're correct. i said '68 because it's his favorite and one of the very few years he listens to lol.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Nov 5, 2011 6:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

WT is not that limited in his listening. He listens to a wide range of years as long as they are before 1972.....

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 5, 2011 9:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

well that makes 3 now. anyone else?

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Poster: snori Date: Nov 5, 2011 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

Yep, it just shades 12-6-73. I can't recall Keith being so high in the mix in the bridge on the copy I've had for a while. Nice to hear his contribution so clearly.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 6, 2011 5:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

Not quite "Yes!!!!!"

I DL'd the Charlie Miller 2/24/74 from LL yesterday and I'm a bit miffed that CD 3 is over 82min long. The very nice Jay Sarafin uses 4 CD's. I had to cut out Promised Land to fit the rest on one CD. Even with Audacity, and cutting crowd noise, I couldn't fit "CD 3" on CD-3. Just sayin

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 6, 2011 7:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

i stuck to my old source because i like the crowd noise and tunings in between. the difference in sound won't be too noticeable to the average ear, but cm's upgrade is a tad more crisp.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Nov 6, 2011 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

yes, have fun with the 82 min CD-3. My burner does not allow such an overburn. Does "overburn" compress and reduce quality?

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Poster: high flow Date: Nov 4, 2011 7:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

"It is a fact....imo." HA HA HA HA HA HA.....classic Friday night rhetoric. Have another Dr! :)

Cheers.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 4, 2011 6:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Yes!!!!!!!

greatest dew ever as well